This and that

[wellinghall]

Someone on my FList may be interested in the piece in the latest issue of Oxford Today, saying that the word "chav" might have spread to the rest of the UK from Chatham.

There's a nice anecdote of the Beatles (as well as a good example of a great singer / songwriter guitarist) here:

When will England remember how to play rugby? They knew how to against France, but the knowledge seems to have deserted them in Murrayfield.

And when will England remember how to play cricket? Yes, Sidebottom's hat-trick was excellent, as were the other England catches - but apart from that?

ETA: For a few weeks, the birds round here have been gobbling up sunflower seeds like nobody's business. However, this last week, while the seeds we put out at the front of the house have all gone, the ones at the back have hardly been touched. Odd, that. (But whatever the reason, we'll be bringing in the feeders tonight, before it gets too windy).

Comments

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

I remember Bacchus explaining the 'Chatham Average' explanation for the term 'chav' to me a while ago, but I understand it is one of a number of theories.

[segh.livejournal.com]

When you say Bacchus, do you mean Malcolm?

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

No, different Bacchus.

[segh.livejournal.com]

Oh sorry! And, goodness, I didn't know there was ever anything good in Oxford Today, I generally put it straight in the recycling.

[sally_maria]

Well, we assumed it was "Cheltenham Average", and blamed the girls from the Ladies College, though I can't say I be sad to pass on the "honour".

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Hey, no problem! There isn't usually much that's good in Oxford Today - even the two letters on Tolkien in the current issue each contain an inaccuracy.

[sally_maria]

Ooh, really? I'd just found them in my Dad's copy, since he'd got it out to show me the Dictionary article in connection with something else, but I didn't spot the errors *bad Tolkien fan*. I'll probably still Snippet them, but an explanation would no doubt head off angry letters. :-)

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

First letter: the first recorded dramatisation of the Hobbit was in 1953, according to Hammond & Anderson's bibliography.

Second letter: it's "The" dialect, not "A" dialect.

I'd have emailed you earlier to point out the letters (having forgotten your dad was an Oxford man), but I thought you might not want to be bothered!

[kargicq.livejournal.com]

Up here in the North-east, "chav" is pronounced charv. It's been a documented Geordie word for ages, apparently borrowed from Romany.

[sally_maria]

I'm not really back on TS business yet, but I couldn't resist after spotting them myself. My brain is pretty much back to normal now (or as normal as I ever get :-D), I'm just getting tired more easily. So I do things for a while, then go back to bed for a bit.

[chainmailmaiden]

There are a number of theories as to the origins of the word 'chav', but it is an undeniable fact that Chatham and the surrounding area are chock full of them. You feel very out of place going shopping in the High Street if you're not wearing a baseball cap, tracksuit & lots of chunky gold jewellery. It is also a pre-requisite to have your lower back tattooed, and to display it whatever the temperature. We've started to get the train to Longfield on a Saturday, so we can shop at Waitrose...

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

I think that's just another possible derivation - I don't think anyone really knows for sure.

What is interesting is that in the south, the word for someone common and vulgar uses the short 'a' sound that a northerner might use and in the north, pretty much the same word uses the longer 'ar' sound that a southerner might use.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Yes, do take it sensibly - I rememebr how much surgery can take it out of you.

[chainmailmaiden]

That's not a Geordie word I ever remember coming across, my education is clearly lacking! Does it have the same meaning?

[kargicq.livejournal.com]

Yes, same meaning. A variant is "chaver" (pron. charver).