Temeraire; or, Napoleonic-era naval ranks and weapons

[wellinghall]

Warning: may contain spoilers (but probably only small ones)

My thoughts on these subjects, in slightly more detail; but I'm writing from memory here, and I'll need to check the book to confirm some of this.

On rank, Naomi Novik seems to have made two mistakes. The first is having no rank between Lieutenant and post-Captain. Now, I do not think that the modern naval rank structure (with, I think, Lieutenant-Commander and Commander) necessarily applied two hundred years ago. However, I did think that not every (ship) captain necessarily had the exalted rank of (post) captain.

On weapons, she has her dragon-borne "men at arms" armed with rifles. Rifles were *very* new in those days, and I wonder if such new technology would have been adopted by the air force so quickly. Secondly, rifles then were very slow to load and fire; even if some were armed with rifles, it would make sense to also have some armed with the quicker, if less accurate, muskets.

Of course, there's nothing to say that her fictional world is just like the Real World, with added dragons; but these points do have the feel fo mistakes, rather than deliberate changes.

Comments from those better-versed in such matters would be welcome!

And while talking about the book - the blurb is so horrible as to make us suspect that it was written from an earlier draft of the book.

Comments

[asklepia.livejournal.com]

There was no rank between Lieutenant and Post-Captain in the early Napoleonic era RN. Officers worked their way up from Fourth Lieutenant to First Lieutenant and then waited for a command post - either as "Master and Commander" of smaller vessels (which developed into the modern three-ringer) or Post-Captain of major ships (the modern four-ringer). Both promotions depended more on patronage than performance, but the M&C was originally for those of lesser birth in order to allow those of more noble blood to proceed more rapidly to admiral.

One of the source below said that the rank of Commander was established in 1794, implying that prior to that date it was possible to proceed directly from Lieutenant to Post-Captain. The term Post-Captain denoted rank, whereas the unqualified term "captain" could be used for a commanding officer of any rank.

The position (not rank) of lieutenants-commander (the plural is deliberate) was, I think, introduced late 19th century. I don't have an RN history but I did find a couple of web references:
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/navynews/editions/2001/11_12_01/story20.htm
and
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:ISTuvU9QErMJ:www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conJmrArticle.52/viewPage/2+lieutenants-commander&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=12
(this is a cached portion of a subscription article)

And what is this book of which you write?

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Thanks for all this great information, asklepia. The book is Temeraire, a first novel by Naomi Novik. Napoleonic era naval warfare with dragons. Usefully reviewed (at least, the first third of it) by pellegrina recently.

The other rank issue I picked up, but failed to comment on above, was that she seems to imply that ensigns were lower-ranking than midshipmen.

[naominovik.livejournal.com]

Hi wellinghall -- I just came across this post while blogsearching; would you mind my hijacking your questions to answer on my lj? These are just the sorts of things I love to discuss. (And sadly you are quite right about the blurb, which I was unable to get altered in time.)

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

No problem! I did enjoy the book, BTW, despite my nit-picking above.

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

He, he, he you little schmoozer you! ;-)

I'd have suggested carbines (as in cavalry) from having read Alan Mallinson's napoleonic-ish cavalry books.

[sally_maria]

My information mainly comes from Dudley Pope, who wrote histories of the Napoleonic Navy, as well as novels set in that era (Ramage).

Future officers joined the Navy as mid-shipmen usually in their teens. They needed a Captain to agree to take them, so money or connections were useful. At around 20 they were able to take an exam for promotion to Lieutenant. (It involved questions on navigation and ship-handling as well as battle tactics.)

Once you became a Lieutenant you joined the bottom of the list, seniority was defined by the date of your commission. First Lieutenant, for example wasn't a rank but a position, held by the most senior (earliest promoted) Lieutenant on board. Some ships (those smaller than a frigate) were commanded by Lieutenants. Their role was Commander but their rank was still Lieutenant. Some very small ships were commanded by Masters, who were warrant rather than commissioned officers - risen from the ranks.

The biggest jump was from Lieutenant to Post-Captain. It usually involved patronage or even luck - you could be the admiral's favourite or just be around when a new captain was needed. Again, you joined the bottom of the list and gained seniority as captains above you died and those below you were promoted. Live long enough and you would automatically make Admiral, as the lists were continuous.

It was a system heavily dependent on who you knew and Buggins turn, but it was easier for a able but not terribly wealthy man to make his way in the Navy than the Army of the same period - no buying and selling of commissions.

Sorry for the rambling detail, hope it makes sense.

[asklepia.livejournal.com]

Navy + dragons sounds interesting... I'll see if I can find a copy.

I don't think that Ensign was ever a Royal Navy rank. It is used in the USN as the lowest commissioned rank, between Midshipman and Lieutenant (Junior Grade) (which is Sublieutenant in RN/RAN), so if she is writing from a US background she's still wrong. It's even more wrong when you consider that Midshipmen in the USN are not commissioned officers, they are considered officer cadets. Midshipmen in the RAN are commissioned officers, even though their rank is equivalent to Officer Cadet in the Army and RAAF, and I guess the same would apply to the RN.

Ensign was formerly used in the British Army as the lowest commissioned rank but I believe it was replaced by 2nd Lieutenant (though I could be wrong).

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

Yep! Ensign's never been used except by the Army. It's never been an RN rank:

Midshipman: lollipop as it now looks (or napoleonic period style collar braid to button on white, but on a modern jacket collar ...)
Sub-Lieutenant: One ring. Lieutenant: Two rings.
Lieutenant-Commander: Two and a half rings.
Commander: Three rings and obe line of gold leaves on cap brim.

(And don't forget the pronunciation is still 18thC "Leftenant")

[asklepia.livejournal.com]

I read somewhere that the middies originally had three gold buttons on the jacket sleeve (supposedly to stop them wiping their noses on it, hence "snotties"). The buttons are now on the Chief Petty Officer jacket.

In Australia only the Army and Air Force ranks are pronounced "leff-tenant". The Navy types tend to say "l'tenant" (where the apostrophe stands for that unstressed shwah syllable usually represented by an upside-sown e).

[pellegrina.livejournal.com]

What are the Ramage novels like? I've considered trying them, but didn't quite dare to as Patrick O'Brian is such a hard act to follow... but I'd dearly like to read more books set in the period.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Have you tried the Horatio Hornblower novels by CS Forester?

[sally_maria]

I must admit they're probably not nearly as well written as the O'Brien books.

They stand as prime examples of how not to do infodumps, both of the previous adventures of the characters and also the history of the areas they are sailing in. But I find the characters thoroughly engaging and the history interesting, so I tend overlook the writing.

It's also probably a good idea to read them in order, as characters are gradually added to on-going cast as time goes by.

[pellegrina.livejournal.com]

Yes; I enjoyed them well enough, but they weren't in the same league as O'Brian. And I disliked Lady Barbara almost as much as the tigerish (argh) Diana Villiers. As all the other series I'm aware of would require figuring out where to start and then managing to acquire volume 1 after ensuring that 2ff will be available if I like it, I'd rather have some quality assurance before making the effort!