Fragments on Elvish Reincarnation
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wellinghallTolkien's "Fragments on Elvish Reincarnation": a review (now completed!)
In:
"J.R.R. TOLKIEN, l'effigie des Elfes"
"La Feuille de la Compagnie, No 3"
Sous la direction de Michael Devaux (editor)
(published by) Collection Essais, Bragellone, Paris, France, 2014
ISBN: 978-2-35294-740-0
32 Euros
Paperback
Pages numbered to 501, plus two pages with text, and nine blank pages, beyond this
Websites:
http://www.tolkiendil.com/tolkien/sur-tolkien/la_feuille_de_la_compagnie_3
http://www.bragelonne.fr/livres/View/tolkien--l-effigie-des-elfes
Twenty-two pages of publication information, contents, acknowledgements, abbreviations, editorial &c, all in French.
Seventy-one pages, in French, of a preface to "Fragments on Elvish Reincarnation"; by the editor, with an elvish glossary by Carl F Hostetter.
The text of "Fragments on Elvish Reincarnation", in English on the verso and with a French translation on the facing recto, each occupying thirty-three pages; the French translation also has editorial footnotes, which the Engligh original does not.
Two pages of a facsimile of part of the original manuscript.
Six black and white illustrations, not directly connected with the preceding text.
Additional material, in French, occupying the remaining 331 plus two pages
This is in three main sections, "edited by Michael Devaux, with the assistance of Christopher Tolkien & Carl F. Hostetter"; the whole being dated ca. 1959 - 1972.
I. The Converse of Manwe with Eru concerning the death of the Elves and how it might be redressed; with the comments of the Eldar added (ca. 1959)
A. The Converse of Manwe and Eru (three pages)
B. The Converse of Manwe with Eru concerning the death of the Elves and how it might be redressed; with the comments of the Eldar added (fourteen pages)
C. Beginning of a revised & expanded version & 'The Converse' (four pages)
II. Re-incarnation of Elves
The Numenorean Catastrophe
&
End of 'Physical' Arda
(ca. 1959 - spring 1966)
(eight pages)
III. Some notes on 'rebirth', reincarnation by restoration among Elves. With a note on the Dwarves.
(1972)
(three pages)
I. A. is a short, two-and-a-bit-page, record of a conversation. It is of the form:
"Manwe spoke to Eru, saying:"
"Eru answered":
"Manwe asked":
and so on.
Manwe is worried because elves are dying, and he doesn't know what to do. Eru suggests that they can be re-housed, either in a re-made body, or through being re-born as a child. Eru gives the Valar the authority to do this, and the power to re-make a body; but he reserves the power to decide who shall be re-born.
I. B. is a longer, fourteen-page, text. As far as I can see, it all seems to a commentary by the Eldar on the converse of Manwe with Eru, rather than being another report of the converse with added commentary. Indeed, it starts off with the word, "Comments." It also has one long comment-on-a-comment, in the form of an "authorial" (ie by the Eldar) footnote.
This is a discourse on I. A., and without adding anything completely new, it does have much additional material. In particular, there is a long (discussion? ruling?) from the loremasters on whether an elf re-housed in a new body is the same elf as before (short version: yes), which moves onto the relationship of the body and the spirit.
This unfinished piece is four pages long, and is a re-write of part of I. A. In a new addition, we see Eru instructing Manwe in the judgement of wrong-doers who have died or been killed; those who repent may be re-housed, "But the obdurate ye shall retain until the End."
The text ends with two (draft?) paragraphs, saying first that one of the Dead may not summon another from the Living to Mandos; and second, that it is lawful for two wedded persons to remain in Mandos together, if death has brought them thither together.
II is an eight-page document, dated to ca 1959 - spring 1966. It contains Tolkien's musings on the subject. The flavour, and overall thrust, can probably be given by quoting the opening lines.
"Dilemma: It seems an essential element in the tales. But:
How accomplished? 1) Rebirth? 2) Or re-making of a counterfeit equivalent body (when original one destroyed)? Or both?"
III is a three-page document, dated to 1972. It contains Tolkien's notes on the subject; mostly on elves, with a brief section on elves.
In:
"J.R.R. TOLKIEN, l'effigie des Elfes"
"La Feuille de la Compagnie, No 3"
Sous la direction de Michael Devaux (editor)
(published by) Collection Essais, Bragellone, Paris, France, 2014
ISBN: 978-2-35294-740-0
32 Euros
Paperback
Pages numbered to 501, plus two pages with text, and nine blank pages, beyond this
Websites:
http://www.tolkiendil.com/tolkien/sur-tolkien/la_feuille_de_la_compagnie_3
http://www.bragelonne.fr/livres/View/tolkien--l-effigie-des-elfes
Twenty-two pages of publication information, contents, acknowledgements, abbreviations, editorial &c, all in French.
Seventy-one pages, in French, of a preface to "Fragments on Elvish Reincarnation"; by the editor, with an elvish glossary by Carl F Hostetter.
The text of "Fragments on Elvish Reincarnation", in English on the verso and with a French translation on the facing recto, each occupying thirty-three pages; the French translation also has editorial footnotes, which the Engligh original does not.
Two pages of a facsimile of part of the original manuscript.
Six black and white illustrations, not directly connected with the preceding text.
Additional material, in French, occupying the remaining 331 plus two pages
This is in three main sections, "edited by Michael Devaux, with the assistance of Christopher Tolkien & Carl F. Hostetter"; the whole being dated ca. 1959 - 1972.
I. The Converse of Manwe with Eru concerning the death of the Elves and how it might be redressed; with the comments of the Eldar added (ca. 1959)
A. The Converse of Manwe and Eru (three pages)
B. The Converse of Manwe with Eru concerning the death of the Elves and how it might be redressed; with the comments of the Eldar added (fourteen pages)
C. Beginning of a revised & expanded version & 'The Converse' (four pages)
II. Re-incarnation of Elves
The Numenorean Catastrophe
&
End of 'Physical' Arda
(ca. 1959 - spring 1966)
(eight pages)
III. Some notes on 'rebirth', reincarnation by restoration among Elves. With a note on the Dwarves.
(1972)
(three pages)
I. A. is a short, two-and-a-bit-page, record of a conversation. It is of the form:
"Manwe spoke to Eru, saying:"
"Eru answered":
"Manwe asked":
and so on.
Manwe is worried because elves are dying, and he doesn't know what to do. Eru suggests that they can be re-housed, either in a re-made body, or through being re-born as a child. Eru gives the Valar the authority to do this, and the power to re-make a body; but he reserves the power to decide who shall be re-born.
I. B. is a longer, fourteen-page, text. As far as I can see, it all seems to a commentary by the Eldar on the converse of Manwe with Eru, rather than being another report of the converse with added commentary. Indeed, it starts off with the word, "Comments." It also has one long comment-on-a-comment, in the form of an "authorial" (ie by the Eldar) footnote.
This is a discourse on I. A., and without adding anything completely new, it does have much additional material. In particular, there is a long (discussion? ruling?) from the loremasters on whether an elf re-housed in a new body is the same elf as before (short version: yes), which moves onto the relationship of the body and the spirit.
This unfinished piece is four pages long, and is a re-write of part of I. A. In a new addition, we see Eru instructing Manwe in the judgement of wrong-doers who have died or been killed; those who repent may be re-housed, "But the obdurate ye shall retain until the End."
The text ends with two (draft?) paragraphs, saying first that one of the Dead may not summon another from the Living to Mandos; and second, that it is lawful for two wedded persons to remain in Mandos together, if death has brought them thither together.
II is an eight-page document, dated to ca 1959 - spring 1966. It contains Tolkien's musings on the subject. The flavour, and overall thrust, can probably be given by quoting the opening lines.
"Dilemma: It seems an essential element in the tales. But:
How accomplished? 1) Rebirth? 2) Or re-making of a counterfeit equivalent body (when original one destroyed)? Or both?"
III is a three-page document, dated to 1972. It contains Tolkien's notes on the subject; mostly on elves, with a brief section on elves.
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no subject
Date: 2015-02-02 01:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-02 06:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-03 08:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-01 05:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-17 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-18 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-18 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 04:12 am (UTC)(Only answer this when you've got time! When you're sitting back with a G&T, benignly surveying the multiple messages of impressedness from those who've read the Three Tomes of Yaerende.)
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 06:47 am (UTC)it is notable that all of these pieces come from late in Tolkien's life, after the publication of Lord of the Rings, and after most of the Silmarillion material hsd been written. Tolkien here seems to be thinking about what he has written over the previous forty-plus years, and trying to draw together aspects of it.
it is also notable that some of these writings date from 1972; the last full year of Tolkien's life, and the year after he lost his beloved wife Edith, to whom he had been married for more than fifty years. I do not feel that this is a coincidence.
no subject
Date: 2015-03-01 06:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-17 05:47 pm (UTC)And, finished at last!
no subject
Date: 2015-03-01 06:01 pm (UTC)* whether an elf re-housed in a new body is the same elf as before (short version: yes)....
...those who repent may be re-housed, "But the obdurate ye shall retain until the End."
And your comments about when each thing was written during his life does both give some insight and help it fit together.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-17 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-01 07:06 pm (UTC)Tolkien opted to give the Valar the power to choose the mode of "return". My choice was to make it inherent in their being. But for my Fynlaren, the choice was that the re-bodying of the spirit would actually reflect the condition of that spirit to a degree.
All in all, it's an interesting subject for consideration.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-17 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-01 09:56 pm (UTC)I'm sure you're right about the connection with his wife's death--although it's also a puzzle he'd set for himself much earlier, which I suppose he was trying to solve here.
Thank you for alerting me and please let me know about any further updates!
no subject
Date: 2015-08-17 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-02 09:28 am (UTC)But yes, surely, as you suggest, influenced by the death of his wife, in the part about two wedded persons in Mandos.
no subject
Date: 2015-03-09 03:48 pm (UTC)Very useful in seeing this related to the moments in his life (and especially poignant re: the connection to the death of his wife).
no subject
Date: 2015-08-17 05:48 pm (UTC)